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[Blog] Shout, Shout, Knock Yourself Out?
Written by Nevadablue on Saturday, 20th Mar 2010 07:18

Although the football world likes to think of itself as walking on water, in practice it has to operate to the same rules as any other profession.

The HMRC has clearly begun to take this view of late, with a demonstrably harder line being taken against teams who default on their obligations.

While more fervent tax collection hasn’t much to do with this article, it does remind us that sound management practice is as essential in football as anywhere else.

Which brings me to the recent widely-reported post-match ranting of our own manager.

In an age when any kind of verbal abuse is frowned upon in the workplace, the recent alleged after-match shouting sessions that have gone on in the Ipswich Town dressing rooms at Peterborough and Watford make one thing abundantly clear – if Mr Keane is having to resort to shouting at his players to try to get them to perform, then surely he has lost the dressing room already, and at a time when relegation is still a real possibility.

Some will say that the post-match rant at Peterborough led to some better results and that RK was indulging in some more “fine tuning” on Tuesday night. But doesn’t that smack of a man who rules by fear? Never a good way to get people on your side in the long run.

Before I go any further, can I extinguish some of the flames I can metaphorically feel licking around my feet already by saying that, yes, football is an emotional sport and , yes, Keano was schooled by the likes of tough and highly successful men like Brian Clough. Witness the following quotation from this very website:

“I’ve had a manager punch me before and he [Brian Clough] was dead right, absolutely dead right. The best thing he ever did to me.

“I can understand Brian Laws fighting with [Ivano Bonetti when he was Grimsby manager] and breaking his jaw, I can understand why Brian Clough hit me. Players drive you crazy.”

Are we happy having a manager who apparently thinks it’s “understandable” to get physical with his players? And as for Cloughie apparently hitting him, well that was then and this is now. Employment legislation and attitudes have thankfully moved on a little since then.

You wouldn’t say that sort of thing if you ran a branch of Tesco, so why should you get away with saying it as a football manager?

There’s another interesting Ipswich-specific dimension here. Marcus Evans runs a worldwide management training company. Imagine the fuss if someone came out with what Keano is quoted as saying in one of ME’s seminars!

Of course, without regurgitating the well-worn Man Utd memoires yet again, we all know this isn’t the first time RK has publicly condoned physical contact.

Some will argue that if you hire Keane you know what you’re getting for your money. I don’t doubt that many frustrated travelling fans would have loved been in his shoes in that dressing room after Tuesday night’s episode of The Season That Never Took Off.

But does it not all point towards a man increasingly bereft of finding a viable way to achieve any consistency with a first team predominantly consisting of players he brought to the club?

OK, part of the initial appeal of Keane was that he would bring a more aggressive edge to the proceedings. But that edge was supposed to manifest as an uncompromising on-pitch attitude, not 90-minute post-match slangfests after yet another lacklustre performance.




Please report offensive, libellous or inappropriate posts by using the links provided.

BlueWharf added 09:23 - Mar 20
I think keane cares about this club more than some of the players.
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JammyDodgerrr added 10:08 - Mar 20
there is no proof he rules by fear. He didn't condone physical contact now, he said that it was justified back then. Again there is no proof he is giving the players verbal abuse what so ever. Apparantly, SAF gives the Manchester United team the hairdryer treatment sometimes and nobody complains about that. Not a very good blog IMO sorry.
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yorkshire added 12:49 - Mar 20
"if Mr Keane is having to resort to shouting at his players to try to get them to perform, then surely he has lost the dressing room already"

What an absolute load of rubbish - have you not heard of Alex Fergusons' 'hair-dryer' treatement. Have you not read what Keane, and others have said about Cloughs management ? Did either of these manager 'lose the dressing room' by shouting at their players ??
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Tractorog added 17:41 - Mar 20
The response of the team against Barnsley indicates that shouting had some impact.
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Nevadablue added 19:12 - Mar 20
Agreed, Tractorog it probably did have some immediate impact but is it a sustainable way of getting the best from the team? Certainly our results have greatly improved overall, but we keep having really bad games like Peterborough and Watford. Then we get reports of fire and brimstone in the dressing room after the match, it improves for a game or three and then the same poor form rears its head again. It has happened so often this season, that one inescapably begins to think that players are responding to a rollicking, rather than adapting their game on a permanent basis. And Yorkshire, I take your point about Clough and SAF, but we are talking about a different level of football in those cases. I don't recall them ever being in a championship relegation fight. I still want RK to succeed, but I do think when he starts condoning physical contact between managers and players that he is fanning the flames of his critics, many of whom regard him as an ill-fit at Portman Road.
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wilts added 20:09 - Mar 20
Ridiculous blog. You cannot compare a football club dressing room to a branch of Tesco. I'm not a huge Keane fan, but any supporter who pays good money to watch an inept performance by, lets face it, a bunch of over-paid prima donnas cannot object when those players are told a few home truths in the immediate aftermath.

Where I do take your point is whether the manager and his coaching staff have the ability to achieve consistent results with this team, but this is more down to skill and judgment in the transfer market and tactical nous and experience on the training pitch & in preparing for a game. Shame that you only alluded to this in your penultimate paragraph!

Sorry, but this is far removed from "losing the dressing room".

The season that never took off, as you say. However as other have said before, it took Robson many years to achieve success for this football club during which the club endured more than one fight against relegation (albeit in the top flight).


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Nevadablue added 21:17 - Mar 20
The point is that Keane should be sorting out any prima donnas long before it descends into an after match rant. The manager of a Tesco branch is charged with achieving peak performance from his staff and uses far more sophisticated techniques to achieve that than Keane is apparently demonstrating. This is all fire fighting in a season of horrendous under achievement in terms of consistency and wins.
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WadzillaBhoy added 10:25 - Mar 21
I can see why the Keano haters now think being a football manager is easy if they are comparing it to running a branch of Tescos! I think I've heard everything now, who ever wrote this article please don't quit your day job. How long have you been a town fan? Don't you realise who's statue you have as your picture. Yes even Sir Bobby Robson punched two of his squad. I know you probably will say that was a different time but most footballer's learn managment techniques off their past managers. Footballers nowadays are paid so much that if they underperform why shouldn't they get shouted at. Its a last resort but you sometimes have to show you are the boss in a dressing room full of lads. Every manager shouts from time to time because it works and in fact if managers dont show they are boss they lose confidence in the dressing room in the long run as the players always will push their luck and weaken the managers stronghold. Case example look at Gianluca Vialli as Chelsea manager, lost the dressing room.
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WadzillaBhoy added 10:27 - Mar 21
Then Vialli lost his job, says it all really!
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Nevadablue added 14:41 - Mar 21
Wadzillabhoy, actually I never said Keane's job was easy. I want him to succeed but I don't think he always makes his own life easy when he says certain things. Yes I remember the Robson punch up story, but as you say a different era when you could also legally choke your co-workers by smoking in the office. It actually amazes me how people tend to regard football as being a law unto itself. In this day and age condoning hitting someone should not be acceptable. The point I made about Keano shouting was that things shouldn't have to sink to that level before problems are addressed. And actually I do think a Tesco manager works harder and has more responsibility on his/her shoulders, but that wasn't the point I was making. To answer your question, been going to Portman Road since age 4 in late 60's and a season ticket holder until leaving the UK.
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Nevadablue added 14:57 - Mar 21
And one more point, if Keane had better control of that dressing room playing standards might not be so erratic. If there is a player power problem at the club, seems to me he isn't totally on top of it.
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WadzillaBhoy added 19:30 - Mar 21
You're right we shouldn't condone the use of violence but Keano only said that teacup thing as a joke. You are right footballers get away with murder on the pitch sometimes just look at the John Eustace tackle on Walters. Thankfully the FA is getting tougher, so it is sort of changing. Every manager im sure has resorted to shouting at their players. You can't sub everyone off so if players are underperforming you have to do something to make them improve. In reality they are just contractors and as a result have to perform or they risk their jobs whereas in Tescos if someone underperforms they aren't paraded in the newspapers with headlines saying they are going to get sacked, almost forcing them out. Usually in Tescos if a manager underperforms they just get demoted. Keano in the summer will get rid of any trouble makers but he has to wait for the transfer window to open before he can do anything. He's already sacked Ben Thatcher and sacking a player in football is very rare.

Im sorry about being rude earlier I thought you were just another Keane hater just having a go. I'm just getting fed up with their constant moaning and lack of support. Its as if as soon as they heard Keano was manager they wanted Ipswich to go down, Its unreal. I think he's doing a good job taking into consideration he's a rookie manager and this is his first season at town. We've only lost 11 games only the top 5 teams have lost less. He will always improve as he has a determined personality. That drive and ambition will rub off on his players in time and we will have a squad of players nibbling at our opponents feet, never letting them settle into the game. A good managers confidence always rubs off on his squad just look at Jose M's impact on the Chelsea players (Im sorry to always use Chelsea analogies! Its all I can think of right now) But hopefully you see my point. Our team needs a leader and Im sure Roy is the man, he's a born leader. Anyway sorry to just lump you in with the Keano hating fans.
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Nevadablue added 05:12 - Mar 22
No problems Wadzillabhoy. I was a huge fan of Keane as a player, the only issue being the amount of time he spent dodging prawn sandwiches at Man U :-) I think he has many qualities we need, but for a guy that is not completely inexperienced as a manager, as Jim was, I think he makes far too many basic mistakes and is way too candid and careless with the press. It seems to me that the successful managers in this division quietly go about with their jobs. Keane, being who he is, will never be able allowed to do that, of course. As a consequence we are now universally labelled as "Roy Keane's Ipswich" and the owner is getting great media exposure out of it, which I suspect is part of his gameplan. On balance, I think he will probably see out his contract with us. Where it goes from then entirely depends on his ability to make this dreadful season we have endured all but forgotten. My basic point is that I don't think we have a very cohesive dressing room - probably something that has been lacking since Sheepy kicked BFJ into touch.
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Nevadablue added 06:23 - Mar 22
Just watched Leicester and Coventry. Great example of how to change things in the dressing room at half time. Too late when the final whistle has blown.
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WadzillaBhoy added 08:51 - Mar 23
Yeah I caught the last 15 mins of that game was watching the man utd vs liverpool game then switched over. That game looked awesome looked like a good turn around and I don't even rate Chris Coleman, but he did well, a good shout never fails! Case example of quiet managers would have to be Sean O'Driscoll, the doncaster rovers boss. I still think we will have a good chance of playoffs next season under Keano though. If we work out a fixed middle 4 and get that stability in the team and sign Murphy we should be contenders. We also need to get the whole squad to gel well so that if need be they can slip into the Starting XI with no problems. But I reckon they will work on this during pre season and focus now on getting more points to make us safe.
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